WATCH: Zuma, Fraser haunt Zondo at CJ interview

Zondo appeared before the JSC on Friday in the final instalment of the Chief Justice interviews.

The morning got off to a slow start but by midday, the intensity of the interview had heightened and by the late afternoon tensions had started to go through the roof.

Members of the panel went back and forth with Zondo on his role in maintaining the stature of the country’s judiciary, calling into question his handling of the commission of inquiry into state capture.

JSC commissioner Julius Malema raised concerns about Zondo’s failure to haul former State Security Agency Director-General Arthur Fraser before the commission to account for state funds siphoned under his watch. 

In December, Zondo dismissed Fraser’s application to cross-examine the commission’s witnesses that implicated him - claiming he abused his power at the intelligence agency, approved the irregular use of funds and claims of at least R125 million unaccounted for under his watch.

Malema questioned Zondo’s decision, suggesting his behaviour was untoward.

But Zondo denied there was anything sinister about the dismissal, accusing Fraser of dragging his feet. 

“Part of the problem with Mr Fraser is that he seemed not to want to comply with the processes of the commission, if he wanted to testify all he needed to do is to apply and his application would have been decided.

“He says I didn’t want him to testify because his evidence would disturb the narrative that I wanted to follow but the best way for him to test that was for him to apply for leave to give evidence and see whether I was going to refuse because if he had applied and complied with the rules of the commission, the matter would come before me in an opening hearing and then I would have to make a decision.

“He decided not to do that but wanted to be treated outside of the rules but more than anything, the problem with Mr Fraser was the time when that kind of decision could be made. I could not make that decision in March  because in March he still wanted to get documents from SSA and he never came back to me so by the time he complains I didn’t call him, we must look at the last part of 2021 when the oral evidence had been completed in June,” Zondo explained. 

Malema didn’t take Zondo’s assurances at face value, probing further. 

Malema also probed about Zondo’s contentious relationship with former President Jacob Zuma, a question he had been building up all week.

Zondo told the JSC the second meeting with Zuma related to concerns about public comments Malema made in 2008, which he thought could destabilise the country. 

But even then, Malema was dissatisfied. 

“I’m worried that it becomes very easy for you to descend into the political arena - it’s these meetings that you had with President Zuma to discuss politics and it’s these meetings with ease with President Ramaphosa to discuss this and even go ebbed discussing how he’s going to appear and all of that,” said Malema. 

“And anyone who says Ramaphosa’s appearance was staged, I’m tempted to agree with them because you met him before and you now have a press conference to engage politicians in public, descending into the arena.

“Are we going to have a Chief Justice that gets easily available to meet politicians at their own comfort, we don’t know what gets to be discussed there and when we ask they don’t remember. Will that not put this judiciary in an even more crisis than it is now?” Malema asked. 

Zondo’s interview descended into a heated exchange between Malema and Justice Minister Ronald Lamola before it was brought to a close.

The panel will meet on Saturday to deliberate before making a recommendation to Ramaphosa. 

ALSO READ: